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ד"ר צבי סדן נגד "הפטריוטים": "לא יכול להיות דבר כזה, יש דעות שהן אינן לגיטימיות"

ד"ר צבי סדן אומר שצריך להציב קוים אדומים בשיח הישראלי, ואסור לאפשר בשם הדמוקרטיה פתחון פה לכל דעה

ד"ר צבי סדן קורא להגדיר קווים אדומים ברורים בשיח הציבורי בישראל. לשיטתו, אחת הבעיות המרכזיות בתרבות הפוליטית הנוכחית היא האמונה שכל דעה, תהיה קיצונית ככל שתהיה, זכאית לבמה ציבורית. הוא סבור כי חברה בריאה אינה יכולה להתקיים כאשר אין הבחנה בין רעיונות לגיטימיים לכאלה שפוגעים בבסיס המוסרי והאזרחי המשותף.

סדן מבקר את מה שהוא מזהה כפער בין השמאל לימין בכל הנוגע לקביעת גבולות השיח. לדבריו, השמאל הישראלי פועל מתוך מערכת ברורה של גבולות רעיוניים – הוא לא מוכן לתת לגיטימציה לדמויות מסוימות כמו איתמר בן גביר או מיכאל בן ארי, ומוציא את עמדותיהם מחוץ לתחום השיח הלגיטימי. מנגד, לטענתו, הימין לעיתים נכנע לליברליזם נטול הבחנה, שמוביל לכך שגם עמדות קיצוניות שאין להן מקום במרחב הדמוקרטי זוכות לבמה.

הוא מציין כי החברה צריכה להחליט איפה עובר הגבול – מהי דעה שאפשר לדון בה ומהי דעה שאין לה מקום. בלי גבולות ברורים, מתרחש טשטוש מוסרי שמסכן את היכולת לנהל שיח ציבורי תקין.

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דוד
דוד
21 ימים לפני

צודק . לשמאל יש 3 ערוצים ולימין 1

יוסף
יוסף
21 ימים לפני

כן ולא כי בדמוקרטיה לא מותר לומר הכל יש דעות שחותרות ועושת נזק ופיגוע לעם ישראל כמו בתורה אפשר לחלוק כל עוד במסגרת כי כשמערערים על המסגרת אין חיים זה בדיוק תורת הפרוגרס שעל הכל מותר לחלוק והכל לגיטימי אין גבולות זה נגד עקרונות היהדות וערכים ככה התחילה עבודת אלילים שחלקו על כל מה שקיים

Oren
Oren
21 ימים לפני

Multiculturalism has collapsed, the Jewish people current level of integration, with the suicidal west, is definitely going to be scaled back considerably. We will not know what the Jewish people believe about how to treat different people in the world, until we talk about it. Including the Jew haters. Only after they new standards are understood, can morally preferable boundaries be introduced. I suspect the left merely desires to defend the old model, of blaming the Jew, and lying about it being moral, fair and reasonable. That model as well, is over.

It is not clear, or entirely correct that leftists or women are overwhelmed by their emotions, which causes them to be riddled with feelings of compassion, for palestinians, or illegal immigrants who have committed crimes, after they snuck into the country. I am not even sure that America has progressed as far as its democracy can, even though that is my overall perspective.

Oren
Oren
21 ימים לפני
הגב ל  Oren

Its hard to sort, how many are stupid, how many are ignorant, how many are cowards, and how many have embraced evil. I think as you embrace and indulge evil, called immorality by the secular, you alter your perception to one that is negative, and closed minded. The realm of the evil, is one where censorship, and opposing ideas thought, and spoken, is the policy.
One thing that people realized after October 7th, is that we live in a world where the politicians will allow violence to happen, based on popular opinion. Many of us realized it when the british rape gang stories hit, some even understood it from watching the governments reactions to terrorism. Now it seems most people understand, we live in a world where genocide can happen, in first world nations, based on how popular a religion or skin color is.

Oren
Oren
21 ימים לפני
הגב ל  Oren

Radicalism and violence exists in almost all belief systems, and political movements. But it doesn’t necessarily exist in equal numbers. Hopefully the media starts to reflect that, rather than only take the side of their sponsors and viewers.
Right wingers believe that radical Muslims should be killed, so there will be less terrorism, and relations with Muslims can be improved. Religious people believe that communists should be fought because they are atheists. Basically communists are just radical leftists, or maybe orthodox purists of the left. So why is it radical for the left to call for radical Jews to be attacked, so the rest of the Jewish community can have better relations?

Oren
Oren
21 ימים לפני
הגב ל  Oren

I wonder if saying this is a sin. I shouldn’t promote gentiles to attack Jews, but I feel like they can be enticed into saying this. We have a reason to strive for good, and mercy, even if the enemy is evil. Not without limit, or consideration for the danger, but we are supposed to try to be noble and humane, even if our enemy is not. The anti racists, burn with hatred and outrage. Violence is insignificant, and massively influential.
Its crazy for American Jews especially, to complain about American Jew haters, when we already know that the American people don’t want multiculturalism in the first place. We don’t want multiculturalism either. Not only that, but the prevailing idea, is that Jews are responsible for bringing in the non whites into America in the first place. We are calling for toleration, when we already know that toleration is unwise, and zealous defense of a nations borders are prudent. Perhaps the people in charge are trying to force a conversation about racial inequality.

Oren
Oren
21 ימים לפני
הגב ל  Oren

Perhaps the white European leadership of America, wants to maintain its position as dominant leadership of the world, a model to be followed, or a doorway to the conversation about racial inequality. But that information, that argument, that proof, is not available in any American media. I suspect behind the scenes, a financial based government dominates, one that may not care about morality or mercy. One that views the races of the world as chess pieces, each one competing for domination.
But that is decisively contrarian to the spirit of the Torah, the Jewish religion, and the entire confirmed framework of G-ds creation, which elevates righteousness, justice, love, and more above the meaningless valuations of cause and effect. I suppose artificial intelligence, as well as the smartest men of our time, are able to calculate the value of morality, insert it into a computer, and have it judge mankind, based on that value system. 

Oren
Oren
21 ימים לפני
הגב ל  Oren

But how do we get this knowledge to the people, and how do we know to what degree the program of the world might be running an evil program at this time, reflecting the behavior and thoughts of the people, till the world is improved, and the power of evil is quarantined.
I suppose I make my contribution, and let G-d sort it out as far as making availability of knowledge. If the financial government of the world is behaving in a demonic way, then that’s just another layer of explanation and difficulty we will have to get over, assuming a massive increase in the level of discourse, which doesn’t seem forthcoming.
Today is a Yomtov. I will stop. May G-d forgive me for my sins. In Him I trust.

Oren
Oren
21 ימים לפני
הגב ל  Oren

I don’t think that race war between Jews and white gentiles is the more important dominant dynamic between the two peoples. Some aspects of competitions exist, but far more important for both people, and the world, is upholding the commitment to merit. When either Jews, or white gentiles progress, towards establishing their identity, their right to be emotionally dynamic people, with a right to security, pride, and dignity, both people gain those rights.
It is far more accurate to say the Jews, are in conflict with the anti Jewish, and anti white left, that claims to be anti racist, tolerant, and supportive of diversity. Their culture, does not tolerate Jews or white gentiles being angry, or selfish, or rude, or being aware of other peoples, and other races. Of having negative feelings, or issues towards them.

Oren
Oren
21 ימים לפני
הגב ל  Oren

The survival of both races is not the question, their diminishing influence is the issue, that will promote their self awareness, and rejection of the abuse they face as a result
Corporate American culture, and ideas, are a threat to the health of human kind, the white gentiles, and the Jews. If Jews and white gentiles, do not have the ability, to make the smallest of observations of other cultures and peoples, then they have no chance of forging their identity in the world, of expressing their frustrations, or grievances, of effectively managing issues with other peoples.
This media discussion asserting that anti Zionism, is anti semitism, at least in the right wing media I read is still annoying. Its irrelevant if it is completely one way or another, it is obvious that it is gigantically influencing and radicalizing violence, negativity, criticism, and obsession with the Jews and Israel.

Oren
Oren
21 ימים לפני
הגב ל  Oren

There is nothing wrong with us trying to leverage our Jewish credentials and achievement, to establish our dominance, our legitimacy, and our case for our preferability. First we must assert the ability to acknowledge inequality. We do this by embracing the idea that we will one day soon establish the environment, that compels peoples to defend themselves, and their identity, from people of lower capabilities to themselves.
I still see the left being the big enemy, not the Jews, or the white gentiles. When the left realizes that one day the institutions that they support seizing power, will turn against them one day, that their governing structures, are fundamentally aligned against the left, the left and the establishment will become fundamental enemies. Empowering us, our cause and narrative.

Oren
Oren
21 ימים לפני
הגב ל  Oren

Our peoples ability to recognize the left, the gentiles, and the non whites as threats, to contain them, and attack them which will probably be necessary, but is not yet possible, will determine how many Jews and white gentiles suffer attacks.
Why not promote the idea of liberty, the nohide laws, the harmful effects of oriental girls and boys living among non orientals, and the unbalanced Jewish white gentile relationship, to the oriental people, so that they believe in the future of their nations and people? So capital flight becomes less of an issue?
Women will destroy their lives, for large genitilia, they call it love, but really it’s the effect of large genitillia on their feelings and thoughts.

Oren
Oren
21 ימים לפני
הגב ל  Oren

Its not that it doesn’t make sense, for the Jewish money infused America, and the American empire, to leverage its power to maximize its benefit, interests, and protection. But the globalized world was more efficient, meaning a negative global gdp influence. I believe that conscious awareness, on the part of the White Gentile-Jewish west will have superior benefit, in western asset valuation, and long term investment potential, but I may be weighing this incorrectly.
Is America doing well by the Jews of Israel and America? It doesn’t appear to be the case. Hamas, the pa, hezbola, the houthis, isis and the ayatola, and all Trump is doing is talking about peace. He is protecting them, at the cost of the security of the Jews of Israel, and I think the Israeli population now knows it. If not, they are thinking about it. 

Oren
Oren
21 ימים לפני
הגב ל  Oren

The American relationship with the Jews is being exposed as a fundamentally hostile negative one. The interests of the Americans is to minimize and reduce the Jewish aspiration towards freedom, security and prosperity. The tools that America uses to achieve those goals, are fundamentally beyond the average Jews ability to accept.
The thought seems impossible to ignore, and once they do, they will realize that American anger is the only reason to allow the PA and its pay to slay program to continue. There’s no domestic pressure to do so, just the biased censorship and narratives of the Americans and the Europeans. Like taking over a year and a half to go get the hostages, why on earth would an Israeli government do that? How horrible is America, to pressure Israel to do that, despite the endless pro Trump propaganda, saying he has helped rescue the hostages.

Oren
Oren
21 ימים לפני
הגב ל  Oren

Global access to the chess board, is a wic burning on two ends. America is currently A bigger champion of what is good, but it does so usually in the service of evil. I suspect the genuine right wing religious contribution of America is minor, mostly limited to what is free speech, and what is strategically required. Dictatorship for the world, could be the better government, in a world where the demands of the people, do not correlate to the sources of finance.
Frightening to think, that Jewish women, have access to all the high IQ, wealthy, attractive, moral, sociable men of all the gentiles to marry. While we average Jews, beaten down by a society that hates our existence, that recoils and is outraged at our confidence, pride, self esteem, and domineering masculinity, have to take what remains of our lives, and still appeal to our women for marriage.

Oren
Oren
21 ימים לפני
הגב ל  Oren

Marriage to the gentiles doesn’t make sense either, but it takes Jewish women a lifetime to figure this out, if they ever do. Better to marry young, better to use marriage arrangement services to find Jewish women, who desire to perpetuate our people. The normal propaganda, of the American socialization and courtship, does not work at all for American Jews who want to find American Jews to marry. This conversation, does not exist in English language media.
People and nations designed for the elite, will find that they have sacrificed all non elites. They cant even recreate elites in the next generation. G-d has made IQ scores a numbers game. Only save people with a one in a hundred IQ? End up with one one hundredth of the population. Thanks to personality types, there are people who think about their jobs, getting married, their careers, and all sorts of characters.

Oren
Oren
21 ימים לפני
הגב ל  Oren

There are smart and moral people who pass down their knowledge as well. But detached from G-d, that morality and acquired wisdom dwindles, it dissipates. A father cannot relevantly teach his son what his father taught him, with great success, because its secondary information. He is not speaking from the heart, he is speaking from memory. A world to big for us to fundamentally understand.
 You can realize that G-d must be running it, through examples of inherently advantageous behaviors and thinking, leading to greater levels of success. Or you can take those advantages and see them as proofs of the importance of morality and ideals, at making one man better than another, one society better than another. Your sons and daughters might trust you, and know when you are telling the truth, but they fundamentally see the world differently. They will remember your testimony, maybe gleam what it means, but to be able to articulate it, is not likely. They either find G-d on their own, or they and their descendants are reduced.

Oren
Oren
21 ימים לפני
הגב ל  Oren

Am I arguing for a non hierarchal society? I am calling for something bigger than a marshal plan and a new deal combined. I consider the level of threat, justifying the level of response. I am not primarily interested in laws that will promote our objectives, even though that is probably part of the solution eventually, but making the argument for G-d, for morality, for racial inequality, and defense of the family, being levied along the lines of the seriousness of the threat against them. With justification for moral and immoral tools to achieve our goals of a more perfect society.
I find the conversation on war, is so perfect to introduce this idea of the elasticity of morality, so very well. There are billions of desperate and violent people in the world, dealing with them is obviously a necessity in order to implement any incremental improvements. Sure, its necessary to talk, but be realistic about how easy that is in much of the world, where peoples minds are closed, and masculine notions of pride and honor, for the poor and desperate, have all but crushed the peoples ability to change. In G-d I trust.

Oren
Oren
21 ימים לפני
הגב ל  Oren

Perhaps what makes most gay men bad or even evil, is that they are insufficiently judgmental to be on the side of good? Not today they aren’t. Maybe their advocacy for homosexuality, tips the scales as to their goodness, despite their friendly demeanor. Considering this topic, and where my conclusions are taking me, reminds me how ill-equipped the women are to deal with this world. Women are like bambi, surrounded by angry bulls willing to kill and smash to protect them.
Most Jewish woman promiscuity, ends up being directed downward, towards gentile men. The white gentiles suffer the same dynamic, with their women finding it safer and more comfortable to direct their sinful urges towards non whites.
Maybe girls would benefit in knowing that men make sacrifices for stable marriages as well? Like for instance, that no man on earth prefers monogamy?

Danny
Danny
20 ימים לפני
הגב ל  Oren

אחי, יש לך מנוי חינם לצ'אט gpt ?!

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שלום ולא להתראות
20 ימים לפני

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